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Internet 2 Seminar Report 03/08/01

"4 Fellows and a Councillor"

Internet 2 Seminar Report

Smart Wellington Interactive Digital Breakfast

Simon Riley 31/07/01


INTERNET 2 : What is it and Why should you care

24th July 2001 ( e) Vision Wellington :


1. Introduction : John Houlker

2. Dr Neil James - Internet2 overview & research sector prospects

3. Simon Riley - Example: SohoNet Dedicated Hi Speed Film Post Production


4. Q&A Panel

Prof. John Hine ( Internet NZ Fellow - VUW )

Dr Frank March ( Internet NZ Fellow - MED )

Dr Neil James ( Internet NZ Fellow University of Otago)

John Houlker ( Internet NZ Fellow - Industry NZ )

Simon Riley ( Internet NZ Councillor - Net Impact )

Neil de Witt (MD, City Link)

Jon Labrie ( CTO , Weta)

Fraser Simpson ( CTO, Silverscreen )

No of Attendees : 40 ( Central and Local Government , Telco & IT Digirati )


Planning for the INTERNET 2 seminar grew out of a number of informal discussions in the past 12 months over the complete lack of progress on any level re New Zealand Internet 2 agenda between Simon Riley , John Houlker and Frank March

In parallel Neil James had tabled with no success a proposal to obtain support for an Internet 2 agenda with the Vice Chancellors Committee .

Internet NZ was the main sponsor of the seminar and contributed to 50 % of Neil James travel expenses- $ 350 .

Noted : Most European countries including those of a similar size to NZ and the following Asia Pacific countries ( note APAN - Asia Pacific Advanced Network ) Australia) Singapore, Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, China Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia have peer relationships with Internet 2

New Zealand is conspicuous by its absence.

The objective of the seminar was designed to be a call to action

Based on not only feedback but subsequent follow ups ( watch this space ) the seminar has exceeded all expectations .

Also Included in the feedback has been 100% support for Internet NZ to take a lead role in facilitating a NZ Internet 2 initiative.

Neil James has agreed to be drafted by Internet NZ to Chair an Internet NZ working party should approval be forthcoming . Simon Riley will also be prepared to serve on a working party

The seminar was an extremely positive showcase for Internet NZ based on the sheer weight of representation - also not overlooked was that almost all the architects on Internet 1 were present .

An key objective of the proposed Internet 2 working party would to progress a national Internet 2 initiative - the most likely scenario being a private / public sector consortium .

Note : useful example of a private / public sector consortium led approach -APAC : Australian Partnership for Advanced Computing

( )

Howard Fredericks Comments

Interesting that we ( InternetNZ ) were SO CENTRAL to the discussion. You had two Crs in Auckland plus Grant Forsyth and perhaps seven present and ex Crs in Wellington. Almost every panelist was a fellow of InternetNZ!

(NOTE RE: VIDEOCONFERENCE FEED - Everyone here was enthused to try it again and make it better - it led to discussion here afterwards ) .

We had people from Massey, Unitec, Clear, Maori Internet Society, IT coys.

Press Coverage

New Zealand's Internet2 work may get kick-start

Infotech 30 July 2001,1008,882085a1896,FF.html.

NZ missing Internet2 boat

IDG Computerworld 11 July, 2001


Internet2 Primary goals

Create a leading edge network capability for the national research community

Enable revolutionary Internet applications

Ensure the rapid transfer of new network services and applications to the broader Internet community.

Internet 2 / Advanced Computing Research Drivers

Improving Quality of Life

weather, transport, emergency services, defence

Understanding Life and its Process

proteins, molecules, genome databases

Pioneering Medical Frontiers

brain mapping, drug design, health care

Accelerating Industrial Design

polymers, materials, product engineering

Advancing Business and Finance

business intelligence, economic modelling, stock market

Our Earth in Focus

oil reservoir modelling, earthquakes, land+sea+sky

Proposed Role of Internet NZ Working Group

Raise awareness and potential benefits of advanced computing services for the NZ research community , key industry sectors and communities of interest such as,bioinformatics, environmental modeling, health , education, film production and media services.

Facilitate the development of partnerships and consortiums with academia and industry that will keep NZ at the cutting edge of advanced computing and networking technologies

Provide input to Government Industry policy formulation

Anticiapted Outcomes from an NZ Internet 2 National Strategic Initiative

Increased awareness and linkages between industry and the NZ research community in advanced computing

Participation in regional and global Advanced Computing research initiatives and alliances eg APAN - Asia Pacific Advanced Network

Increased expertise and creation of a skillbase in advanced computing applications

Successful demonstration trials of the benefits of using advanced computing.

Note : APAN ( Australia ) Advanced Computing / Internet 2 Projects

Distributed computing

ACSys, ANU, CSIRO, Osaka U, NUS, ISI, Argonne Lab, Indiana U

Digital libraries


Earth Observation: CSIRO, Agencies (NASDA, ESA, NASA.)

Data mining

ACSys; Illinois University (Terabyte challenge)

Virtual environments / Telerobotics

ACSys, ETL/RWCP, U Chicago, Indiana

Distance education

Association of Pacific-Rim Research Universities (APRU)

Internet technologies

testbeds for MBONE, IPv6, Cache, RSVP/DS/QoS

Appendix 1 : Summary Neil James PPT Presentation

Internet2 and networking in the Research and Education sector




1st theme: Unlike New Zealand most countries have a research and education networking organisation, and many have a national R&E network. Many of the R&E network organisations have also joined into a peer relationship with the US Internet2 project. New Zealand is conspicuous by its absence from the international R&E networking scene. Should these omissions be of concern to us What, if anything, are we missing out on

2nd theme: A significant number of countries have bold plans to support access to electronic services for their citizens, as part of a wider strategy to become 'knowledge societies'. It is instructive to read from the following from the preface of Sweden's ICT Commission's report 'General guide to a future-proof IT infrastructure'

"In 1999 the Swedish ICT Commission presented a vision of a

future-proof IT infrastructure for Sweden. That vision is in two

parts. The first part is a fine-meshed fibre optical network

reaching all inhabitants of Sweden not later than 2005. The fibre

optical network is to be available within 100 metres of all

buildings. The other part of the vision is that Internet service

providers (ISPs) shall compete to deliver a basic service for

permanent Internet connection. The cost to a user of using the

basic service shall not exceed the price of a bus pass. The basic

service shall have a capacity of at least 5 Mbps throughput

between any two points in Sweden. 5 Mbps is an initial value and

the capacity shall be doubled every year solely by changing the

end equipment."

Where is New Zealand's vision



What is it

It is not a network as such. It is not just about bandwidth. It is about developing advanced network applications and technologies. It is about collaboration and partnerships.

Internet2 is a consortium being led by over 180 US universities working in partnership with industry and government to develop and deploy advanced network applications and technologies, accelerating the creation of tomorrow's Internet. Internet2 is recreating the partnership among academia, industry and government that fostered todays Internet in its infancy. The primary goals of Internet2 are to:

* Create a leading edge network capability for the national

research community

* Enable revolutionary Internet applications

* Ensure the rapid transfer of new network services and

applications to the broader Internet community.

A bit of history


The Internet was created by the academic community in an interesting mixture of research and development where facilities were being created often just because someone recognised that they could create them, rather than necessarily because a need existed.

Stanford -- the Internet protocols

NSFNet -- the scaled-up Internet

CERN -- the WWW protocols

University of Illinois -- the Web browser

By the early 1990s it became apparent to the more visionary that the Internet was going to be an enormous force in all our lives. The Internet has opened up unparalleled opportunities for collaboration and research, and has become a fundamental service for research workers. By the mid 90s the leaders in the Internet developments started thinking about "where to next". They realised that there was much more that new Internet technologies could do to aid communication and

The new Internet will provide:

* QoS

* low latency

* very high speed

* very high reliability

* multicast capabilities

* directories, authentication and security

* innovative applications

Internet2 networks


The physical elements of Internet2 are provided in from a variety of sources. The Abilene network is one of the elements that many Internet2 universities are connected to. Several (currently 28) interconnection points, known as GigaPoPs are in place in the US. Speeds on the network are currently typically 2.4Gbit. The name comes from a railhead established in Abilene, Kansas during the 1860's

The other main Internet2 backbone is vBNS - a partnership between MCI Worldcom and NSF. The full name is very high performance Backbone Network Service.

Some examples of Internet2 applications


* Using virtual reality to aid remote diagnosis and other medical services

* Allow collaborative mass data applications in fields such as meteorology and astronomy

* Digital Libraries

* Teaching Music with Advanced Network Video-conferencing

* Computational grid

* Access Grid - video walls etc.

..... the list is very extensive

Computer Networking in the Research and Education Sector


One hundred and eighty seven universities in the US are members of Internet2, and 35 countries have peer relationships with the Internet2 project including Australia, Singapore, Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan and China from our region. In Europe most countries have peer relationships including several of a similar size to New Zealand, and some less economically developed countries including Slovenia and Croatia.

APAN (Asia Pacific Advanced Network) - Japan, Korea, Singapore, Australia were founding members, Malaysia, China are currently associate members and other countries including Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Hong Kong and Indonesia are also associated with APAN.

New Zealand stands out in its absence from international R&E networking and the Internet2 project. Why is this so and does it matter

Does it matter


Perhaps the real question for the R&E sector is whether our researchers are disadvantaged by not having ready access to high bandwidth, and advanced capabilities such as QoS.

I suspect that seeing what might be possible is difficult when we concentrate on mere extension of today's public Internet capabilities. It is not particularly reliable; there is no guarantee of performance. If it was simple and inexpensive to use the Internet 'wastefully' it is likely that currently un-thought-of new applications and opportunities would emerge.

Will the market provide the solutions we are looking for


Without a bit more push the commercial suppliers appear unlikely to make the sort of progress that we should be able to expect in provision of high speed, affordable bandwidth with QoS services.

In the long term, and with appropriate safeguards, the market will deliver the services we want in a cost effective manner. However can we afford to wait Some of the argument for the development of R&E networks, and involvement in Internet2, is based on the fact that it was, as noted above, the academic and research communities that developed the first Internet..

(would the Internet have appeared through normal commercial

developments Unlikely because it required cooperation across a

wide community of interest)

...and it will be the same groups that develop the next step. Only if we see the Internet2 as merely an incremental change would it seem reasonable to believe that its development will be done by normal commercial processes.

It is interesting to note how our less than perfect market in the telecommunications area has failed to deliver what we know should be possible. Currently there is a lot of interest in mobile Internet services but as the first offerings appear they are less than convincing in their cost effectiveness - the market takes as much as it can in returns to the shareholders and does not deliver what is clearly possible. I had my breath taken away when I found out what Vodafone had decided to charge for their GPRS data services - up to $30 per megabyte! That would often mean that collecting just my email would cost $10 or more! Can we trust the market or should we be more involved in shaping our own Internet services

NZ is 22 out of 29 on the OECD's list for cost of business telephone services

We are talking about moving from 9.6k to 14.4k for the home as the standard that our citizens can expect. Other countries are already well down the path of providing 5M to the home - too little too late

Current cost 'back of the envelop' calculation


Loosely based in a particular service I know of that is currently being leased:

Cost of 2MB circuit per month - $5,000

Cost to install fibre strand along route of leased service including routers etc. $5,000,000

Traffic on one fibre - 100MB

If 50 customers came together to use the 100MB capacity the equivalent lease would be $3,000,000 per year.

All of this seems to show that the payoff for doing it oneself is less than 2 years. The life of the fibre is often taken to be 20 years.

In addition to this argument it should be noted that the cost of installation is dropping and the amount of bandwidth one can put on the fibre is more than doubling each year.

What other countries are spending


NGI (Next Generation Internet) in the US has a budget of around US$100 million per year

In Canada the Government have provided about CA$ 0.5 billion since 1995

Australia has continued to inject funds through Federal projects - the latest being A$37 million plus a further A$93 million leveraged from industry for advanced network projects

Appendix2: Available from Neil James <>

National Computer Networks in Research and Education

A report from the universities of New Zealand

August 2000

Table of Contents

1 Executive summary........................................................... Error! Bookmark not defined.

2 Introduction....................................................................... Error! Bookmark not defined.

3 Research and Education data networking in New Zealand Error! Bookmark not defined.

4 Commercial development of the Internet in New Zealand Error! Bookmark not defined.

5 What do universities require from data networking Error! Bookmark not defined.

6 Research and education data networks around the world Error! Bookmark not defined.

7 Why do countries promote R&E networks.. Error! Bookmark not defined.

8 Should New Zealand have an R&E network. Error! Bookmark not defined.

8.1 For international research collaboration and partnerships Error! Bookmark not defined.

8.2 To rationalise the management and operation of network facilities and provide affordable high bandwidth Error! Bookmark not defined.

8.3 To achieve pervasive coverage using a single unified network Error! Bookmark not defined.

8.4 Develop technologies for future commercial use Error! Bookmark not defined.

8.5 Conclusions.............................................................. Error! Bookmark not defined.

9 What actions do the universities wish to see Error! Bookmark not defined.

9.1 Formal establishment of an R&E network body Error! Bookmark not defined.

9.2 Much lower cost access to IP services... Error! Bookmark not defined.

9.3 Higher bandwidth to the home at affordable rates Error! Bookmark not defined.

9.4 Much lower costs for international connectivity Error! Bookmark not defined.

Appendix 3

New Zealand's Internet2 work may get kick-start

Infotech 30 July 2001,1008,882085a1896,FF.html.


A working party may be formed to kick-start New Zealand's Internet2 development.

No New Zealand organisation is participating in Internet2 the next stage in the development of the Internet that offers higher capacity and more secure bandwidth.

New Zealand's lack of involvement with Internet2 classes it with third-world nations, says Neil James, assistant director (IT policy) of Otago University's information services division.

He addressed a seminar at Wellington's (e)-Vision centre last week on the issue also video-conferenced to another group at Auckland's Unitec with discussion afterwards as to how New Zealand could get back on track.

Mr James says InternetNZ (formerly the Internet Society of New Zealand), could set up a working party, with representatives from interested groups, to look at "where to from here".

Communities of interest need to show industry what is possible with high bandwidth, he says, to give vendors an incentive to lower prices.

Mr James says he is not an expert in the area but wants to get people talking.

Members of Internet2 in the United States enjoy bandwidth of 2.4 gigabits per second and this should soon increase to 9.6 Gbits/sec.

Internet2 involves a coalition of 170 United States universities, as well as research networks in Canada, Europe and Australia, who are using the network to develop futuristic, high bandwidth applications. Some corporations are also involved.

Internet2 offers enormous opportunities for collaboration between universities, Mr James says, allowing specialists to teach over vast distances live.

Access to Internet2 is created through a national network organisation or research and education network, such as the Australian Advanced Research Education Programme something that New Zealand lacks at the moment.

"Maybe that will change."

Creating an InternetNZ working party would be a step in this direction, he says, and would create something wider than research and education that encompassed industry.

He says people with the same priorities and vision need to come together and lift the issue's profile. "Our vision is myopic at the moment."

Pilot programmes can be a good way of demonstrating potential.

He says the Government needs to help bring people together. "If the InternetNZ group gets off the ground and makes headway, the Government could provide some support for that."

He says what the Government is saying is short of what is ideal, and what is being achieved is short of what is being said.

While New Zealand is trying to get 14.4 kilobits a second bandwidth to rural areas, Sweden will be rolling out five megabits a second by 2005.

Mr James says it's never too late to start catching up, but "we should be getting a move on as soon as possible".

Little use is being made of emerging Internet technologies in New Zealand, he says, because of their high cost.

High bandwidth networks exist in cities, but intra-country connectivity is far behind. Mr James is concerned about the creation of disparate islands of high bandwidth that do not fit together.

He says providing high bandwidth cannot be left to the market, with plenty of bandwidth available in New Zealand at the moment but few able to afford it.

"There's reasonable evidence to show that the market is not going to deliver low-cost bandwidth."

Innovations using high bandwidth will be difficult to develop till access is easier, he says.

Appendix 4

Smart Wellington Interactive Breakfast Series-Next Tuesday

Tuesday 24th July 2001

INTERNET 2 : What is it and Why should you care

The Internet has a sequel.

A coalition of 170 US universities as well as research networks in

Canada, Europe and Australia plus a few dozen corporations have been

pooling their resources to build the Internet2 framework, which

researchers are now using to develop a variety of futuristic, high-

bandwidth applications.

Internet2 is built on a foundation of several networks capable of

carrying data at dizzying speeds using connections up to 3 gigabits

per second.

For example, research teams at Stanford University are using

Internet2 to develop a variety of long-distance applications: a

robotic helicopter that can be remotely controlled by spoken

commands, a system for transmitting three-dimensional models of brain

activity to remote locations, several videoconferencing courses

involving students on multiple continents, and tools to allow

surgeons to collaborate on operations happening thousands of miles


Other applications are in the works, some of them commercial. A

startup company called Teleportec has developed a broadband

conferencing system that produces the illusion of a three-dimensional

hologram, so you can use the Net to project a ghostly image of

yourself, Princess Leia-like, onto a specially equipped lectern. The

governor of Texas, Rick Perry, recently used the system to address a

crowd in Dallas without ever leaving his office in Austin.

Teleportec's system (which costs $70,000) is data-intensive,

requiring 384 to 768 kbps of bandwidth, the Texas governor's address

last month was transmitted over the Internet2 network.

Will Internet2 supersede the current Internet Not really. The

purpose of Internet2 is somewhat like that of the space program: to

produce lots of indirect benefits by funding primary research.

So rather than actually building the next version of the Internet,

Internet2 researchers hope to develop technologies and techniques

that can later be applied to the public network by private enterprise

and the government. Using examples like Teleportec the results will

be truly amazing.

There is a growing concern that New Zealand universities and research

community are falling behind their international counterparts in

access to high bandwidth data services that are needed to support

Internet2. One suggestion is for the establishment of a National

Research and Education networking body which would collaborate with

AARNet (the Australian Research and Education network) in the

purchase of international data capacity in order to fully participate

in the opportunities from Internet2.

This new body could represent New Zealand in international forums on

research and education networking, enabling New Zealand to take

place, in a peer relationship, in international initiatives such as

the US Internet2 project.

The lack of progress even at the discussion level here in New Zealand

regarding the opportunities presented by Internet2, when compared to

Australia and Canada for example: who have recently completed the

first phase of Internet2 networks does not bode well for the future,

particularly in the context of progressing the notion of a "knowledge

economy". Limitations are for the most part not technical but rather

the lack of the imagination.

Dr Neil James, University of Otago

The session will be chaired by John Houlker from Industry NZ and will

be followed by a discussion with a panel of experts.

Appendix 4 : Reference

Internet 2 PPT presentations

Available from ( e) Vision

1. Neil James

2. Simon Riley

Internet 2 Presentation / Streaming video

Contact Richard Naylor :

Internet 2

The next stage of Internet development in academia.

National Laboratory for Advanced Network Research (NLANR)

NLANR provides technical, engineering, and traffic analysis support for high-performance network service providers and users.

Next Generation Internet Initiative

Federal investment into R&D and research networks to develop the Next Generation Internet.

University Corporation for Advanced Internet Development (UCAID)

UCAID is a non-profit consortium, led by university members working in partnership with corporate and affiliate members, to provide leadership and direction for advanced networking development within the university community.

APAC : Australian Partnership for Advanced Computing

As part of its national role, APAC is taking on special projects relating to advanced computing and to the broader areas of the national information infrastructure.

APAC has joined a consortium (Australian Advanced Internet Research and Education Program), involving AARNet and the ACSys CRC, to develop a cooperative relationship with UCAID, the agency responsible for Internet2. A Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) has been signed for the development of the cooperation with Internet2.

The MOU will allow Partners to collaborate with Internet2 groups in the US, initially using AARNet and the Australia-Japan Network Link (and TransPac) being managed in Australia by the ACSys CRC.

APAC is developing plans for an Australian Information Infrastructure Testbed with other industry organisations

APAC : GrangeNet 29/5/01

The Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, Senator Richard Alston today announced funding of $14 million for GrangeNet (Grid and Next Generation Network) under the BITS Advanced Network Program. The core participants in the GrangeNet consortium are APAC, AARNet, the CRC for Enterprise Distributed Systems Technology, Cisco and PowerTel

Internet2: The Once and Future Net

July 10, 2001

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