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Council Minutes 27/04/00

MINUTES OF THE GENERAL MEETING OF THE COUNCIL OF THE INTERNET SOCIETY OF NEW ZEALAND INC HELD AT PENTHOUSE ROOM, MUSEUM HOTEL, WELLINGTON 27 APRIL 2000

Status: Minutes adopted at Council Meeting 26 May 2000

1. WELCOME

Peter Dengate Thrush opened the meeting at 16:00 and welcomed those present.Councillors were advised that the meeting was being recorded.

There was general discussion about the subject of the recording of Council meetings.

  • The Chair explained his reasons for this decision. His interpretation of the Articles is that the Society should conduct all its business in public. The Chair did not see any reason for discussion.
  • Cr Higgins advised that he thought discussion was necessary. Things said in the past had been taken out of context and he was not happy about the meeting being recorded.
  • Cr Harris and Cr L Dengate Thrush felt that having the session recorded would stop things being taken out of context.
  • Cr Park was concerned that the decision should not have been taken without prior discussion with Council.

00/39 (Moved: Higgins/Mason) THAT the meeting move into committee to discuss the audio recording of Council Meetings

CARRIED
Opposed: L Dengate Thrush, Harris

Council moved into committee.
Recording Stopped

00/40 (Moved: Chair/March) THAT the meeting move out of committee.

CARRIED U

Recording Started

00/41 (Moved: Chair/Harris) THAT Council Meetings be audio taped;

  • That the tape to be available for internal administration purposes to staff and members of the Council;
  • That a copy be posted to the member's area of the web site; and
  • That during a Council Meeting by raising a "Point of Order - Taping", recording will be turned off, to be turned on again by decision of Council.
CARRIED
Opposed: Higgins

2. PRESENT

  • Peter Dengate Thrush(Chair), Frank March (Secretary), John Vorstermans, Liz Dengate Thrush, Don Stokes, Richard Bourne, Mark Harris, Andrew Mason, Jean Park, John Hine, Howard Frederick, Jim Higgins, Jim Shaw, Roger De Salis, Sue Leader (Executive Director).

3. IN ATTENDANCE

  • Gail Cornell (Executive Assistant)

4. OBSERVERS

  • None

5. APOLOGIES

  • ABSENT: Jennifer Northover, Deb Struthers, Keith Davidson (Treasurer)
  • LATENESS : Jim Shaw, Roger De Salis,

00/42 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the Apologies be received.

CARRIED U

6. MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING

As these had only been circulated at the meeting time was taken for councillors to review the draft minutes.

Recording Stopped - Recording Started

Amendments:

  1. The motion moved in the "In Committee" session in Section 13 was:
    " (00/12) MOVED (IN COMMITTEE): (Chair/L Dengate Thrush) "
    RESOLVED that the ISOCNZ Council
  • Acknowledges the DOMAINZ Board's position
  • Recognises that the Council has an interest in wider issues affecting the Internet in New Zealand
  • Recognises that standards of conduct are critical and that certain types of conduct including personal abuse are not acceptable
  • Expresses its wish to see the current action adjudicated in the interests of the common good in order to set standards for the Internet
  • Recommends that an attempt at alternative dispute resolution be undertaken

CARRIED
For: Chair, L Dengate Thrush, De Salis, Frederick, March, Mason, Northover, Park, Shaw
Opposed: Farrar, Harris, Higgins, Stokes, Hine
Abstention: Bourne
Departed: Davidson (abstention recorded)

  1. After Motion 00/24 Cr Bourne is recorded leaving the meeting. He returned five minutes later.
  2. Motion (00/31) was seconded by Cr Hine not Cr Higgins
00/43 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the Minutes of the March 31 2000 as amended be accepted as a true and correct record.

CARRIED
Abstention: Vorstermans

7. MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Cr Harris pointed out that in reference to the Motion 00/06 on the previous meeting that the suggestion of referencing Agenda items to handouts by use of some numbering system had not been noted.

8. REPORT FROM THE ISOCNZ CHAIR

The Chair gave an oral report:

  • The Chair spoke to several letters distributed, bringing to Council's attention the letters to Alan Brown and Patrick O'Brien (Council area of the web site) regarding the defamation case.
  • The Chair mentioned the recent resignation Cr Farrar from council due to publication of certain documents.
  • The Chair advised that he has now withdrawn from the Domainz Model Review Working Group
  • Chair noted that the Domainz Board had held a Governance Training Session with Tony Hassed beforethe one undergone by the Council before the last meeting.There was general discussion about when another session with Mr Hassed could be arranged with the ISOCNZ Council.

ACTION: Executive Directorto circulate possible dates on the lists for Councils comment before a date could be decided for a further Governance session with Tony Hassed.

  • The Chair expressed his desire that both the Domainz Board and the ISOCNZ Council should get together and do a joint session mediated by Tony Hassed.
  • The Chair recorded his thanks to Cr De Salis for bringing the concerns of the Registrar community to the ISOCNZ/Domainz Relationship Working Group onFebruary 23 for action.
00/44 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the Chair's oral report be received.

CARRIED U

9. REPORT FROM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

Executive Director spoke to her brief report.

  • Executive Director advised of an approach from UNIFORUM to combinethe Society's own conference to coincide with their own in October. This would have many benefits including reduced costs and UNIFORUM are well known for putting on good conferences.
00/45 (Moved: Higgins) Point of Order - Taping 5:08pm

Recording Stopped

(Council area of the web site)

00/46 (Moved: Chair) That the recording be restarted 5:12pm

Recording Started

00/47 (Moved: Higgins/Hine) THAT a formal approach be made to UniForum to hold a jointly branded Conference at the proposed October date and venue.

CARRIED U

There was general discussion that it was important that ISOCNZ have more than just one major event (the AGM) in a year. Though doing jointly branded ventures was a good and positive move things like the "Face to Face" and the Summit should not suffer. The Executive Director advised that we did not have the resources to do all things. The idea was put that we did not need a face to face this year as previously to get people to come along to the AGM.

ACTION: Cr Harris and Executive Director to meet next week with UniForum re jointly branded Conference.

00/48 (Moved: March/Chair) THAT ISOCNZ does not hold a Face to Face Conference in conjunction with the AGM 2000 providing the report back from the meeting on a jointly branded Conference with UniForum is satisfactory.

CARRIED
Opposed: L Dengate Thrush

The Executive Director requested that the Council move into Committee.

00/49 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the meeting move in committee to deal with the section of the Executive Director's report pertaining to the ccTLD Secretariat tender.

CARRIED U

00/50 (Moved: Chair/) Point of Order - Taping (Noted that when the meeting moves in committee the recording is turned off automatically)

CARRIED U

Recording Stopped

00/51 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the meeting move out of committee

00/52 (Moved: Chair) That the recording be restarted6:01

Recording Started 00/53 (Moved: Chair/Harris) THAT the original tender be confirmed;

  • that the Council protest the manner in which this has been handledand note that it will be formally seeking an explanation at the nextccTLD Constituency meeting; and
  • that the tender comply as far as possible with the tender formatprovided by the AdCom"
CARRIED U

Cr Park sought clarification as to who was to do the work and itwas agreed that the Chair would complete the tender.

ACTION: ISOCNZ Chair to prepare ccTLD Secretariat Tender document and write letter in line with motion 00/53 by April 28

00/54 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the Executive Director's report be received.

CARRIED U

Cr Harris notedthat he would have to leave shortly and so advised that as convenor of the MEP working group there was no report but one would be presented at the next meeting on 23rd June. He further noted that he fully supported the Administration Committee's recommendations.

10. REPORT FROM THE TREASURER

  • Presented by Cr March in the absence of the Treasurer.
  • There was no formal report.
  • Executive Director advised that the reports circulated were for March only and did not reflect the financial year-end.

00/55 (Moved: Harris/L Dengate Thrush) THAT in the absence of the Treasurer, the Treasurer's report be tabled.

CARRIED U

11. REPORT FROM CHAIR OF DOMAINZ BOARD

Cr Higgins talked to report (Council area of the web site) circulated.

  • First -it was the decision of the Domainz CEO and Board that their two reports be combined.
  • In March 4,500 Domain Names were registered. This worked out at 100% growth per annum.
  • Cr Harris asked how this compared with global trends.
  • Cr Higginsreplied that it compared pretty well.Temporary staff had been taken on in order to cope with increasing demand for phone queries etc.
18:18 Cr Harris leaves.
  • Testing is in full swing. The large registrars will be ready.
00/56 (Moved: Higgins) Point of Order - Taping

Recording Stopped

(Council area of the web site)

00/57 (Moved: Chair) That the recording be restarted 7:07

Recording Started

  • The Domainz Chair gave apologies from Domainz Board regarding the delay in implementing the WHOIS Policy.
  • Cr Stokes spoke about the template and those existing users want WHOIS.
  • The Domainz Board has preference for Board to report to Council through Chair moving to Quarterly financial reporting. Also asking Council for feedback on reporting requirements. If change is needed let us know. Chair has asked the Treasurer to draft financial reporting requirements.
  • Domainz Chair advised that the Domainz Board were currently going through the Governance sessions. Issues drafted :

1. Provision of Open access to .nz ccTLD
2. Price changes
3. To maintain a robust and stable space
4. To operate a viable business

  • Domainz Board feels that is what the ISOCNZ council wants them to do.
  • Domainz Chair asked if the Council could advise how many would be attending the Domainz AGM on July 10.
Discussion:
  • Cr De Salis asked Domainz Chair to clarify- currently if there is a disputewith Waikato who is it handled by? Once the move to Domainz is complete how would disputes be handled? There was some discussion as Chair Domainz could not advise without a specific example of what the dispute might be.
  • Cr Dengate Thrush asked that deliverables be quantified. Cr Hine noted that the expectation was more than just payment of a dividend.
  • Chair advised that all these questions would be answered once allGovernance issues are clear.
  • Cr Dengate Thrush stated that the points given earlier were fine but needed to be more specific.
  • Chair advised that the Council needed to decide what reports were required and what they should contain. He expressed his disappointment that all Council members did not attend the last Governance session. Until governance is sorted out we cannot move on Schedule A. Most company boards have simple values .. makemoney. This is not the case with ISOCNZ, which is very different.
  • Cr March advised that the lists were very quiet. The last major dispute was over the "28 page contract". The Chair of Domainz repliedthat only nine responses had been received and these were mostly informal. None were violently opposed some suggested changes or asked for clarification. The document is still draft. The contract also does not have to be signed before the system goes live next week (but at some point) so there is no great urgency.
  • Cr Frederick asked for some clarification of the words "Interim/Dividend and "to whom was the dividend distributed "in the report.
  • Cr De Salis advised that a dividend was declared so that money would come to ISOCNZ as a chunk. That which was paid in March currently resides in the ISOCNZ bank account.
  • There was general discussion about where the amount paid had came from.
  • Executive Director advised that after the budget was passed at the AGM the amount of $230,000 had been asked for but how this was to be done was left open for discussion.
  • There was more general discussion. It is important that ISOCNZ knows how much to ask for and when. Chair Domainz advised that a request is currently expected. Cr De Salis asked how the council could decide how much to ask for if they didn't know how much was available.
  • The subject of lowering the fees at Domainz was discussed, Domainz Chair advised that where this has been done the number of names registered has rocketed and even more money has been made. Cr Hine wanted to restate that "Domainz is not a company designed to make money". Also we had to ask Domainz for information we could not expect them to deliver what had not been requested.
  • Cr March noted that if too much profit were made the Government may have things to say about monopolies.
  • Domainz Chair advised that we were aiming to be in line with the rest of the world.
  • The Executive Director asked for, and received, confirmation that the January 2000 profit projection still looked accurate.
Point of Order Taping Recording Stopped - Recording started

The reason for the delay in payment of the Dividend the first time was a difference of opinion between the Board and the Treasurer.

00/58 (Moved: Chair/De Salis) THAT the report from the Domainz Board Chair be received.

CARRIED
Abstention: Higgins, Park

19:00 Break for coffee - Recording Stopped
19:15 Return from break - Recording Started

12. Committee Reports

: (Chair reports as circulated)

Council requested that for these evening sessions more substantial food be provided. Steak and chips seemed to be favourite

a. Administration Committee

Frank March (Chair), Keith Davidson, Richard Bourne, Mark Harris (transitional - outgoing), Peter Dengate Thrush and Sue Leader (ex officio).

i. Executive Director advised of the work carried out to create draft job descriptions for the positions of the Chair and Executive Director that had been circulated. These would lead to improved accountability. The need has been evolved for a third person to be employed.

New Admin Manager – organising functions etc .. this would leave the Executive Director free for higher functions. Workflow and e-meetings were also looked at. There has been some concern on the subject of council burnout. The suggestion of issuing the minutes with motions and actions only to compliment the recorded version had been recommended to the Admin Committee who had agreed.

00/59 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the meeting move into committee to discuss Recommendation One for a new staff position of Administration Manager and that the Executive Director and Executive Assistant leave the meeting

CARRIED U

Point of Order Taping
Recording Stopped

17:20 Sue Leader and Gail Cornell leave the room.

00/60 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the meeting move out of committee.

CARRIED U 18:20 Sue Leader and Gail Cornell return.

Recording Started

There was general discussion that there was insufficient information available to make the decision of whether another staff member was needed. The need for change was recognised.

00/61 (Moved: Hine/Stokes) THAT the Council accepts in principle the need for more assistance;

  • That the Treasurer be asked to comment on the budget;
  • That full job descriptions are required;
  • That a finite time limit is required for resolution.

CARRIED
Abstention: March, Chair

ACTION: Admin Committee Chair and Executive Director to resolve before next council meeting

00/62 (Moved: Vorstermans/Park) THAT the Council strongly values the work of the Executive Director

CARRIED U

ii. Council e-meetings issue had been addressed. There has already been one resignation due to this issue and others are threatened. The Executive Director had made the suggestion in Recommendation two.

00/63 (Moved: Chair/Park) THAT Recommendation Two be adopted, namely:

"2.Council E-Meeting

  • Council must adjourn between face to face meetings
  • Recommend splitting Council list into:
  • Announce - items for urgent attention only and notices of meeting (via Executive Director, Chair or Secretary)
  • Info - interesting tidbits - all councillors can post
  • Discuss - material councillors want to talk about until there is a consensus for a motion for the next face to face meeting.Process would be to email the Executive Director, Chair, or Secretary with notice of motion
  • Council is only called into E-session by the Chair or by application to the Chair and announcement is on Council-announce"

CARRIED U ACTION: Executive Director to arrange for change of Mailing Lists

00/64 (Moved: Chair/) THAT Recommendations Three, Four, and Five lie on the table.

CARRIED U

Cr Frederick suggested the creation of a "me too" list J

iii. Cr Hine was concerned about the loss of full minutes to one of Motions and Actions only. The discussion minuted was useful. On tape there was no way to reference what you wanted to find.

  • Could links be pointed to the Audio from the minutes? Executive Director advised that this was the intention.
  • Cr Stokes also advised that he found the discussion summarised in the minutes useful.
  • The Chair suggested that the Council would learn to appreciate the new format. Cr March noted that the amount of work needed to create the Minnutes was exhaustive. Cr Dengate Thrush suggested a trial run.
  • Executive Director advised that several ways had been tried but all ended up with 3-4 days worth of her time being taken.
  • There was general discussion that this should be just stated as a valuable thing done by the Executive Director and if it was necessary that she continue with this job. Cr Bourne advised that the advantages were largely historical and Audio did not met these needs.
  • Cr March suggested that both were done, and agreed that it was two years later that the value of the longer minutes was realy seen.
  • Cr Bourne wanted to clarify that the "Minutes" as agreed by the council were the long verion written ones.
  • The question was raised that the Council had just added to the Executive Director's workload.
  • It was suggested that David Zanetti be asked to help with getting the Audio version on the Web.

No Motion needed

iv. Left on table

v. Left on table

vi. Renaming isocnz-l
The resoning behind this is that this is an open list but its name implies it is endorsed by the Internet society. Vorstermans asked why we should have a list at all that is not ours and suggested removing it rather than renaming it. Cr Bourne disagreed in as much as he felt that discussion was too important. Cr Stokes agreed with Cr Vorstermans that if you change the name you may as well delete it. Cr Frederick suggested adding a disclamer to mails currently sent from the list to the effect that contents did not necessarily reflect the views of ISOCNZ.

00/65 (Moved: Higgins/Chair) THAT isocnz-l be renamed.

LOST
For: Higgins; Abstention: L Dengate Thrush, Mason, Frederick

00/66 (Moved: Park/Chair) THAT a two line disclaimer be added to the isocnz-l list unless this contravenes recommendations in the forthcoming draft Communications Policy.

CARRIED
Opposed: Stokes

ACTION: Executive Director to refer Motion 00/66 to Policy Committee and advise Executive Assistant to action motion if appropriate

b. Policy Committee

Jennifer Northover (Chair), Liz Dengate Thrush, Richard Bourne and David Farrar (now resigned).

The <Policy Committee report> was circulated prior to the meeting Cr L Dengate Thrush spoke toCr Northover's report noting:

See Draft Proposal to Establish an Internet Hotline in New Zealand

  • that the formal Communications Policy was on its way to Council for comment.
  • The Executive Director apologised for the lateness in circulating for comment the Offensive Words Policy - it is with CoP signatories for comment.
  • Cr Higgins advised that here are moderators 2 in government - local and national

00/67 (Moved Chair) THAT the report of the Policy Committee be received.

CARRIED U

c. "Social Impact" Committee

Howard Fredrick (Acting Chair), Andrew Mason, Jean Park, Deb Struthers

00/68 (Moved: Frederick) Point of Order - Taping
Recording Stopped

(Council area of the web site)

00/69 (Moved: Chair) That the recording be restarted

The committee had not yet met in the presence of the Chair or the Executive Director. The committee needed guidance before they could produce productive results. They are underway but not clear on their mandate. 00/70 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the oral report of the "Impact" Committee be received.

CARRIED U

d. Technical Committee

John Vorstermans (Chair), John Hine, John Shaw, Don Stokes, Roger De Salis and Mark Davies (external member)

See report.

Zone Files:

  • The allegation that Domainz had sold information from the Zone Files was untrue. Investigations had determined that download from the zone files by an ISP was onsold.
  • Domainz feels that the policy can be interpreted in two ways
    1. open anyone can see everything and
    2. The opposite of 1. Domainz has requested that the policy be more explicit. Domainz does not want to have to interpret it
  • Cr Vorstermans advised that zone files should not be allowed unless requested.
  • Chair advised that this should be given in writing to Domainz. Cr Stokes advised that this is in hand.
  • Cr Higgins asked that the Technical Committee sit down with Domainz. Cr Vorstermans advised that he had had difficulties getting to see the CEO of Domainz. Chair Domainz advised that he would arrange for the CEO to be available.

New DNS system.

  • Asked to comment.
  • The Technical Committee formally requests that a copy of the third party Audit by Deloitte's be given to them.
  • Cr Higgins advised that testing was still being completed.
  • Cr Vorstermans questioned the scope of the Tech Committee. It was originally envisioned as a technical advisor for Domainz. This has not happened over the last 18 months. The TechnicalCommittee could have been used as an intermediary on the DNS re-development
00/73 (Moved: Chair/Hine) THAT the report of the Technical Committee be received.

CARRIED U

13. Working Group Reports:

(Convenor Reports as circulated)

a. Domainz Model Review (Convenor - Cr Hine) - to review the operational model of the Registry. Progress report

00/71 (Moved: Hine/) Foreshadowed motion: THAT the Council of ISOCNZ instruct the Board of Domainz to include a WHOIS server as specified in the policy set out in [ link ]  with the roll out ofthe new system; including, if necessary, that the roll out be delayed until such a WHOIS service is available.

WITHDRAWN BY MOVER

Cr Hine referred to his motion, which had been useful and had served its purpose. He now intended to withdraw it. Advised that he had discovered that WHOIS was a part of the new system. Domainz did not know this and this pointed to the root of the problem. The reason for the motion was that Domainz were asked what is happening to WHOIS and there was no reply. Went to John Hine and WHOIS is now being developed and will be available though the format is now under debate.

Point of Order Taping (Cr Stokes) Recording Stopped - Recording started

  • Cr Stokes talked about the set up of WHOIS and the format of the template. and the options which existed.
  • Cr Hine thought this was best resolved by going to the public, though he believes that Domainz should be doing this talking.
  • Cr De Salis said that it was not surprising that, if it took Domainz a year to do something that should have taken a day, there is no confidence in them.
  • Chair asked if Cr Higgins could talk to the NOG.
  • Cr March asked if both formats could be run simultaneously.
  • Cr De Salis answered yes.
  • Cr Hine said there was demand for both.
  • The Domainz Chair asked if the ISOCNZ Council wanted the CEO of Domainz to do anything.
  • Cr Vorstermans advised that if there was to be any change to the WHOIS policy then community discussion had to happen.
  • Chair asked what the Council needed to do before next Fridays' meeting.
  • Cr Hine advised that there was a communications systems breakdown. The Technical Committee needed to meet with the Domainz Board.
  • Cr L Dengate Thrush asked if the system was going live with WHOIS available.
  • Cr Stokes said yes but that no one knew it was!
  • Cr Hine said that the industry needed to be consulted but it is a bit late.
  • Cr Stokes advised that WHOIS is going live in no particular format. The call has been made.
  • Cr Higgins reminded that there was a public apology on record.

00/72 (Moved: Vorstermans/Mason) THAT the Chair of ISOCNZ immediately convey to the Board of Domainz that they are to:

  • inform the public that the WHOIS is available, providing a sample of the output, with a request for comment, and
  • give an indication that if industry comment justifies it an alternative will be implemented; and
  • THAT the Council censures Domainz for implementing a WHOIS format different from the Policy decided by the Council.

CARRIED
Abstention: Higgins, Stokes

ACTION: ISOCNZ Chair to write immediately to Domainz Board regarding Motion 00/72

Cr Hine returned to his report, noting that:

  1. Disappointed at lack of submissions
  2. Talked to IPROLINK and Xtra and had to go to them, 2Day were the only major players to get involved.
  3. To make deadlines Council can expect to see report this time next week. Hope for a quick resolution.
  • Cr Higgins asked how the Working Groupwas going to handle this. Cr Hine advised next week the Council would be asked to approve forwarding of the report for public comment.
  • The policy on policy applies as it was designed to be as broad as possible. Cr Higgins asked where the decision lay.The Report goes to the AGM as the Working Group originated there.
  • Cr L Dengate Thrush advised that this does affect a lot of people.

00/74 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the report of the Domain Model Review Working Group be received and the Working Group be thanked for all their work and effort to date

CARRIED U

b. 0867 Working Group (Convenor – Don Stokes)

Point of Order Taping
Recording Stopped - Recording started

  • Cr Stokes noted the situation with regard to free internet access which could affect lot of smaller ISP's. Cr Stokes wants the advice of council as to what to do, should we point this situation out to the Government.
  • Cr Vorstermans advised that free internet access is here to stay and that where it has been available for some time only around 16% of people use it anyway.
  • Chair asked if a press release would help.
  • Executive Director advised that the media repeatedly approaches her on this subject. Our stakeholders are the whole internet community. Her reply has been that we are concerned and asking for comment from stakeholders as part of our submission to the telecomms inquiry
  • Cr De Salis suggested that the Council approach the Consumers Institute. as the Government have been known to listen to them in the past.
  • There was concern that ISP's to suffer would be those providing service to rural communities.

00/75 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the Chair of the 0867 Working Group and the Executive Director take up the issues of the 0867 battle and its effects upon our members with:

  • a competition lawyer
  • the communications consultants
  • Consumers Institute
with a view to making a public statement.

00/76 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the report of the 0867 Working Group be received.

CARRIED U

ACTION: Chair of the 0867 Working Group and the Executive Director to meet ASAP to action motion 00/76

c. ORBS Working Group

(Convenor - Richard Bourne) members Keith Davidson, Roger De Salis. There has been no meeting to date but the Terms of Reference are being drawn up.

00/77 (Moved: Chair/) THAT the oral report of the ORBS Working Group be received.

CARRIED U

14. General Business

Summit

Recommendation from the Executive Director that it be moved to coincide with the AGM on June 23rd.

00/78 (Moved: Chair/March) THAT the date of the National Summit on International Internet Governance be changed to June 23 2000.

CARRIED U

ACTION: Executive Director to circulate date for proposed Director's Training session once confirmed.

22:10 Meeting ends

©2000 The Internet Society of New Zealand
Last updated 23 May 2000

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