Council Minutes 21/05/97

Minutes of a Meeting of the Council of The Internet Society of New Zealand Inc. held at the Heritage, Fenton Street, Rotorua, on 21 May 1997

Status: These minutes have been approved as accurate by the Council.

PRESENT:

• Jim Higgins(Chair), Liam Greenwood, Roger Hicks, John Hine, John Houlker, Neil James (late), Mark Harris, Andy Linton(late), Brenda Lobb, Donald Neal, Jim Shaw, John Vorstermans

APOLOGIES:

• Stephen Bell, Don Hollander, Colin Jackson, Neil James (lateness), Andy Linton(lateness), Arnim Littek, Rodney Prescott, Jenny Shearer, Steve Withers

Observers:

• Patrick O'Brien, Scott Spence

The meeting was opened at 10:10am.

Observers

Motion: That the presence of Patrick O'Brien and Scott Spence as observers be acknowledged.
Chair/

CARRIED U

Apologies

Motion: That the apologies be accepted.
Chair/

CARRIED U

Minutes of the Council Meeting of 20 February 1997

It was noted that the task of preparing a proposal for the implementation of honoraria had been assigned to the Administration Committee, not to the Honoraria Working Group as stated in the draft minutes. It was agreed that the Working Group would take up this task and report to the next council meeting.

Motion: That the minutes of the meeting of 20 February 1997 as amended are a true and accurate record.
Chair/

CARRIED U

Matters Arising from the Minutes not dealt with elsewhere in the agenda

Guidelines for the conduct of meetings by electronic mail may be read at http://www.isocnz.org.nz/emeeting.htm. (link )

CORRESPONDENCE

• a) Letter from the Director, Information and Technology Services, The University of Waikato re Contractual Arrangements for DNS Service
• b) Letter from the Department of Computer Science,The University of Waikato, requesting registration of the name "dl.nz".
• c) Email by John Hine, Chairperson, DNS Policy Committee,in reply to b)
• d) Letter from Rt. Hon. Don McKinnon, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade,re Government Policy Regarding Encryption

Matters of Interest to the Industry Advisory Group

There was some discussion of the role of the IAG.

Brenda Lobb suggested that "It seems to me we've never said what's expected of [the IAG], and they've never said what they want".

Jim Higgins said that he believed that the issue of benefits of membership for organisational members is a part of a more general issue, and should be dealt with along with benefits for individual members.

Mark Harris stated that Arnim Littek is not only the IAG's representative to Council, but is also Council's representative to organisational members.

Roger Hicks expressed the view that whether or not the IAG works, communication with the Society's organisationalmembers is very important.

MEMBERSHIP

The Secretary commented briefly on his report.

John Hine argued that as a result of the Society's work on the Domain Name System, the Society is seen as a body which does work which benefits organisations and the Internet in general, but not as an organisation which offers benefits to individuals. A major change in strategy would be needed for the Society to become an organisation serving an individual membership. He saw this as a fundamental question.

There was some discussion of the way in which membership fees are structured, with Brenda Lobb favouring an organisational fee structure based on organisational income.

John Vorstermans said that the Society's ability to attract membership and subscriptions depends on the Society being trusted to deliver what members are paying for.

John Hine agreed, saying that the Society needs to have a strategic plan which is able to be explained to members and prospective members before the next Annual General Meeting.

Motion: That a Working Group be established to bring down recommendations for fee structures for both individual and organisational members, and that the Working Group consist of Mark Harris, Colin Jackson, Donald Neal and Brenda Lobb (chair).
Lobb/

Roger Hicks opposed the motion, wishing to leave the matter until after services to members had been considered. Jim Higgins argued that why people should join the Society is a separate issue from the way in which fees are structured.

Andy Linton arrived 10.40am.

The meeting agreed that it would be desirable for the Working Group to report before the proposed planning meeting in July, with a final report required by the August Council meeting.

The motion was put and

CARRIED U

FINANCIAL

Mark Harris presented a balance sheet for the society, and also gave verbally a longer-term financial report.

The longer-term report proposed annual expenditure as follows:

(The PC purchase is a capital item.)

The proportions to be charged to the registry company were based on assessments of the extent to which each item concerned the DNS.

He emphasised the need to attract new members, and also to develop a planned revenue stream so that the Society's activities (and hence expenditure) could be better planned. He proposed that this be done by agreeing a fixed monthly charge to be made to the registry company and including this in the Service Level Agreement specifying the relationship between the Society and NZ Internet Registry Ltd.

He also proposed that the Society's activities be selected on the basis of benefit to members, with activities in general to be self-funding. He noted that the Society is not seeking to make a profit, but believed activities should not generally make a loss.

Motion: That the Balance Sheet as presented be accepted.
Greenwood/

Patrick O'Brien urged that the Society move towards charging a fixed management fee to the registry company. He also advocated an emphasis on administration to pursue opportunities for expanding membership, and the consideration of potential sources of income other than subscriptions.

Roger Hicks agreed that it was "absolutely critical" that the Society and NZ Internet Registry Ltd be financially separate.

Jim Shaw suggested that the Society consider making membership of the Society a component of the fee charged for a DNS name.

Andy Linton argued that it is necessary to distinguish between the benefits received for payments made to NZ Internet Registry Ltd and for membership of ISOCNZ.

John Houlker stated that the July planning meeting needed to return to the Society's original goals and to consider whether these can still be achieved by the Society. He said that ISOCNZ must not take on financially risky activities which could endanger its ability to carry out its most basic activities. He asked whether the Society had a contingency plan to prevent insolvency. It did not.

Jim Higgins proposed that what the ISOCNZ needed to do was to prepare a budget and to set a charge to NZ Internet Registry Ltd on the basis of that budget.

The motion was put and

CARRIED U

CONDUCT OF ELECTRONIC MEETINGS

Motion: That section 9 of the Bye-laws of the Society be amended to read

"9 CONDUCT OF ELECTRONIC MEETINGS

9.1 The Council may hold meetings by electronic mail or other Internet technologies subject to the Guidelines for such meetings which may be approved by the Council from time to time.

9.2 Council videoconference or teleconference meetings shall be governed by these By-laws as if they were face to face meetings."

Neal/

Donald Neal spoke briefly to the motion, noting that he was moving the motion as chairperson of the committee which had overseen its preparation, but that he was moving the subsequent amendment as a matter of personal opinion.

There was some general discussion of email meetings.

Brenda Lobb proposed that after the chair has circulated a summary of the current status of a meeting, attendees should confirm that they have seen the summary. Liam Greenwood opposed this.

Mark Harris reminded the meeting that the options allow the guidelines for electronic meetings to be easily revised, and that the guidelines should not be seen as "set in concrete".

Roger Hicks described his experience in another organisation, where email meetings had been found not to be able to provide quick decisions, and conference telephone calls had been adopted for those cases.

Mark Harris replied that email had the advantage that it does not require attendance at the meeting by all parties at the same time. He agreed that other forms of communication may be appropriate in particular cases.

The motion was put and

CARRIED U

Motion: That the Guidelines for Electronic Meetings attached to this agenda be adopted.
Neal/

Amendment: That paragraph 9 of the attached Guidelines be deleted.
Neal/

CARRIED U

Amendment: That to paragraph 8 of the attached Guidelines be appended the words "or if the remaining uncast votes cannot change the result".
Higgins/

CARRIED
For: 11, Against: Neal

There was some discussion of the wording necessary to change the period of five days over which it was proposed a vote by email take place.

Motion: That the matter lie upon the table.
Harris/

CARRIED U

John Houlker suggested that since one of ISOCNZ's roles is to demonstrate how the Internet may be used, the Society's experiences with email meetings, good and bad, should be published.

CHAIRPERSON'S REPORT

The Chairperson gave a verbal report. Among the discussions he described were some held with the Department of Internal Affairs regarding actions by the Department which some media organisations had linked to the Internet. He also described answers he had given to questions from the media regarding the much-publicised trip to Paris earlier this year by the Minister for Consumer Affairs.

Progress Report - Registry Company Working Group

Jim Higgins reported that New Zealand Internet Registry Limited had been formed, and that the first meeting of the directors had been held two days earlier, on 19 May 1997. That meeting had elected Jim Higgins to chair the Board of Directors.

Education for directors on the workings of the DNS was being arranged.

A quote had been received for insurance to cover both directors and society council members.

The directors had agreed that a contract for service between the company and ISOCNZ be prepared as soon as possible.

Gavin Adlam, who is also the Society's solicitor, had been appointed as solicitor by the company.

Motion: That the funds in the Society's ANZ bank account, and all liabilities
pertaining to the DNS, be transferred to NZ Internet Registry Ltd.
Higgins/

CARRIED U

Mark Harris asked what procedures were to be put in place for shareholders' meetings. No decision was made.

Motion: That Martin, Jarvie, Underwood and Hall be appointed as auditors for
New Zealand Internet Registry Limited.
Harris/

CARRIED
NC, Abst.: Higgins, Hine, Vorstermans

The meeting adjourned for lunch at 12.25pm. Neil James arrived at 12.25pm.

The meeting resumed at 1.05pm.

PROPOSAL FOR PROVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES

Jim Higgins spoke briefly to a proposal from DPI Executive Services for the provision of administrative services for the society.

John Hine expressed concern at the proposed cost.

Brenda Lobb observed that much of the work required would be in setting up administrative systems for the society, with the volume of work reducing in the longer term.

John Vorstermans suggested that if membership increased sharply the Society might wish to bring administrative functions "in house".

Mark Harris said that he was "in favour of the idea of having an administrative secretariat", but not necessarily of accepting the proposal.

Jim Higgins argued that the proposal was "for a management-level person, a certain number of hours per week".

Neil James objected that "that doesn't square with the list of responsibilities" contained in the proposal.

Brenda Lobb suggested that for the proposed cost she would expect other work not included in the proposal, such as production of a regular newsletter "and regular posting of background information".

John Hine asked how many members the Society would need to have to support the level of cost proposed, and argued that the Society should be able to fund the administration of the membership from the membership. "It just doesn't look sustainable".

Jim Higgins argued that the Society needed to have the infrastructure in place to support an attempt to gain a larger membership.

Liam Greenwood stated that the Society would need around three hundred members just to cover the proposed cost of administration. There was some discussion of the extent to which NZ Internet Registry Ltd should be funding the Society's administration.

Brenda Lobb expressed the view that the Society should not decide on the proposal in advance of a decision on the Society's aims.

Mark Harris argued that the Society needed to decide whether it was a small organisation devoted to the DNS or a body with wider aims.

Liam Greenwood asked whether the proposal included provision of an ISOCNZ phone number, and was told by the Chair that it did.

Motion: That the Society accept the proposal for a six-month contract with DPI Excutive Services for the amount specified in the proposal, starting from 1 June 1997.
Chair/

CARRIED
For: 5, Against: 1, Abst.: 7

There was some discussion of whether the Society was required to provide a personal computer, as stated in the Financial Report, or would not be required to do so as stated in the proposal.

John Hine said that he would be happier to vote for the provision of a PC if the result were to be the creation of a working set of membership records, web pages and so on which the Society could later transfer to another service provider. It was agreed that such portability was to be achieved.

Motion: That Mark Harris and Colin Jackson be authorised to purchase a computer for a cost of up to $8 000, the use of that computer to be subject to a contract to be negotiated with DPI Executive Services protecting the Society's physical and intellectual property.
Harris/

CARRIED
NC, Abst.: Hicks, Higgins, Linton and three others

Brenda Lobb noted that insurance on the equipment should be provided for in the contract.

DNS MANAGER'S REPORT

Patrick O'Brien presented a verbal report.

He noted that the number of enquiries received had continued to increase through 1997. The subjects of enquiries received were:

He outlined the steps being taken to complete the process of having all .nz domain names "fully registered", that is, fully delegated to name servers and with sufficient and accurate information held about them. He indicated that names had not achieved this status after a further series of steps to be taken during June and July would be cancelled in August.

He reported that an agency had been engaged to pursue name holders who had not paid amounts for which they had been invoiced.

He commented on the transfer of the administration of names in the .govt.nz, .iwi.nz and .mil.nz domains to The University of Waikato following Victoria University of Wellington's decision that they no longer wished to provide this service.

He outlined a timetable for the tendering of some DNS-related services, with administration of the DNS database, processing of applications and the operation of DNS servers intended to be able to be transferred to successful tenderers between March and July 1998. He said that he intended to have transferred DNS billing activities in house by September 1997.

There was some discussion of measures to increase the resilience of the New Zealand DNS. John Houlker advised the meeting that with effect from 1 June 1997 the DNS caching server operated by The University of Waikato would receive international traffic from three different bandwidth providers. This would provide much improved redundancy, but would mean that international DNS traffic was no longer free of charge.

Andy Linton noted that Xtra had agreed to provide a secondary DNS server. Clear had also agreed to do this, at least at a technical level.

Patrick O'Brien reported that NASA had agreed to host a server in the USA, though this agreement had not been acted on.

It was agreed that it would be advisable for ISOCNZ to initiate a seminar for ISP's aimed at coordinating efforts towards greater resilience in the New Zealand DNS. John Houlker said the he was "happy to follow through with contacts already made".

Patrick O'Brien spoke of the need to explain the distinction between the roles of NZIRL and ISOCNZ. He also reminded the meeting that the legitimacy of NZIRL's activities was derived in part form ISOCNZ's legitimacy, which in turn was related to its membership. He urged the society to act to increase its membership.

Recommendations on Changes to the New Zealand Domain Name Space

John Hine, Chairperson of the DNS Policy Committee, spoke to the committee's report.

Jim Higgins asked whether a rejected proposal for a change to the name space could be reconsidered, since paragraph 4 of the report stated that "no further consideration will be given" to such a proposal. John Hine agreed that it should be possible for a proposal to be reconsidered after, say, a year.

Mark Harris asked how the committee proposed to verify the genuineness of email addresses from which votes are received. John Hine replied that the committee are aware of the problem, but see a need for a process which can be carried out relatively easily.

In response to another question, he stated that the "Interim Decision" step was inserted to allow for additional publicity and discussion outside Internet-related forums before a decision became final.

Liam Greenwood contended that the vote-takers should be people acceptable to ISOCNZ. It was agreed that the phrase "straw poll" should be used, to make clear that the result of the vote is not binding.

Patrick O'Brien suggested the use of an application fee. John Hine said that this was discussed by the committee, but that the committee believed that it would be cheaper and easier to accept applications without charge. Also, it may be that once a particular name has been accepted, that acceptance would make more or less automatic the acceptance of analogous cases, making it unreasonable to charge all applicants.

Liam Greenwood suggested that if an application fee were to be charged, it should be payable after the straw poll had been conducted. He also said that any proposal to levy a fee should be published immediately, rather than introducing the idea later in the process of consultation.

It was agreed that the possibility of an application fee should be included in the proposal to be published so that public discussion on the issue could take place.

Andy Linton proposed that the same process could be used to alter the definition of a second-level domain as was used to create one, with which John Hine agreed.

Motion: That the DNS Policy Committee's proposals be made available for discussion and further submissions, with submissions to close around four weeks prior to the next physical meeting of Council in August 1997. And that a rewritten policy governing the .nz domain name space incorporating the committee's proposed changes be presented to the Council at that meeting for final approval.
Hine/

CARRIED U

It was agreed that the draft Guidelines for Electronic Meetings be taken from the table.

Amendment: That the first sentence of paragraph 8 be amended to read "Votes must be returned within five working days from the Chair's announcement, the exact period to be at the Chair's discretion provided that the Chair announces the time frame for the vote before voting commences, said period to be at least two working days."
Harris/

CARRIED U

The motion was then put and

CARRIED U

PROGRESS REPORT - DNS MANAGEMENT FRAMEWORK WORKING GROUP

John Hine spoke to the working group's progress report.

He described the way in which administration of the DNS has worked in the past. He drew a distinction between "name holder services", which are provided by multiple competing companies to holders of domain names, and infrastructural activities such as operation of primary and secondary name servers and the mechanisms by which information held by them may be updated. He noted that the structure being outlined did not deal with business processes, such as the flow of information about customers.

He argued that there is no need for a high level of quality control in "name holder services", since a competitive market exists in these, but that there is a need for a high level of quality control in the operation of the DNS infrastructure.

John Houlker urged that planning should not concentrate on technology issues. The technology, he said, should be assumed to develop to the limits set by more difficult policy questions.

Roger Hicks referred to issues not considered in the progress report:

• Whose customer is whom? The report does not follow the flow of money
• The need to specify the environment in which NZIRL operates
• The fact that the DNS is both a wholesale and a retail service, and NZIRL must not compete with its customers.

He noted that the process of tendering for provision of services is a role of NZIRL, not of the Society.

Andy Linton argued that the only parts of the structure the Society needed to attend to were the operation of primary and secondary name servers (with secondary servers preferably not operated by the same group as the primary) and of the DNS registry database. He said that the only check necessary when a change was requested was whether the person requesting the change held the key associated with the domain in question. A number of councillors disagreed, saying that possession of the key is not a sufficient check.

John Hine said that the working group's report was not yet ready for publication, but that he did not wish to delay the tendering process by not producing a discussion document until the nextcouncil meeting in August. He wished to see a final document approved in August.

John Houlker asked whether it was ISOCNZ's goal to reduce the amount of the DNS it provides to a minimum.

Andy Linton replied that the priority was to keep the Internet running well. He said that it was not necessary to let a large number of separate contracts, and that there is not sufficient technical expertise in New Zealand for the operational aspects of the DNS to be let to more than a small number of organisations.

Patrick O'Brien proposed a model of the relationships between activities connected with the DNS, which John Hine observed was not a different model, but did recognise that companies communicating with the registry through the email interface are acting as the registry's agents.

It was agreed that Roger Hicks, John Hine, Andy Linton and Patrick O'Brien assist in preparing a paper to be distributed for public comment by 10 July 1997.

DRAFT BUSINESS PLAN

Jim Higgins spoke briefly about the draft plan, which he described as "very embryonic". He suggested that the draft become part of discussion at the proposed planning meeting.

John Hine commented on the large size of the report, and said that a planning meeting must be about priorities.

Jim Higgins proposed that "broad brush" work be done prior to the planning meeting, with the aim of being able to proceed immediately after such a meeting. He asked that council members come back to him with comments on the report and "help fill in the gaps in it".

Roger Hicks observed that the report made a number of assumptions, and that it was not possible to comment on the report without accepting or rejecting these. Jim Higgins invited comment on the assumptions, which he said are spelt out at the start of the report.

The date of the planning meeting was discussed. The Chair proposed that the planning meeting be held on 17 and 18 June 1997.

INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER'S CODE OF PRACTICE

John Vorstermans spoke to the proposed code, saying that he thought it "something pretty acceptable from an ISP point of view". He said that the Internet Service Providers' Association of New Zealand (ISPANZ) will require all of its members to subscribe to the code, and that ISPANZ hope ISOCNZ will be involved in the process of revising the code.

Andy Linton asked that the code be distributed to all ISP's, not only to ISPANZ members.

John Vorstermans suggested that ISOCNZ may be able to modify the code to produce a document acceptable to non-ISPANZ members.

Motion: That Ron Woodrow be approached with a view to producing a media release underlining the effort which has gone into the publication of the ISP Code of Practice.
Chair/

CARRIED U

Roger Hicks insisted that John Vorstermans received personal credit for his work on the code of practice.

PROGRESS REPORT - PUBLIC KEY REGISTRY WORKING GROUP

It was agreed that consideration of this matter be deferred until the next meeting.

Proposal to Establish a New Zealand Network Operators' Group

Discussion was opened by John Houlker, who said that there was increasing connectivity between ISP's in New Zealand. This was a good thing, but it made assuring the stability of the Internet in New Zealand harder. He said he had been discussing this with people who connect to the New Zealand Internet Exchange, and with those involved in Auckland and Wellington exchanges. It would, he said, be a good idea to establish a New Zealand Network Operator's Group (NZNOG), which would provide a means for people involved in interconnection to discuss technical issues in common.

He asked whether ISOCNZ would be willing to assist in launching such a group.

The chair asked whether this would be a working group of ISOCNZ. John Houlker replied that such groups overseas have open membership.

The chair proposed that ISOCNZ call a meeting to be held in Wellington on a date proposed by John Houlker. There was some discussion regarding whether such a meeting would be better held in Auckland.

Mark Harris suggested that the event be advertised through TUANZ.

Motion: That Roger Hicks, John Houlker and Andy Linton arrange a meeting aimed at setting up a New Zealand Network Operators' Group, and that if they require further help from ISOCNZ they arrange this with the Chairperson.
Chair/

CARRIED U

PROPOSAL FOR JOINT ISOCNZ/NZ INTERNET INSTITUTE RESEARCH INTO THE USE OF THE NZ DNS

There was some discussion of the proposed use by the New Zealand Internet Institute of information held in the DNS.

Donald Neal objected to the Society endorsing the use of information for purposes other than those for which it was collected.

John Houlker noted that if a whois server were to be operated, it would make available far more information than could be read from the DNS itself at present. There was some discussion of the idea of not allowing the full database to be retrieved from such a server.

Mark Harris observed that there is precedent in US law for the idea that while individual entries in a collection of data, the collection may be subject to copyright.

Motion: That a letter be written to Frank March, Implementation Manager of the NZ Internet Institute, welcoming the creation of the NZII and looking forward to future collaborative activities. That on the question of access to DNS information, we note that this information is currently available through the DNS itself. But that because of questions with respect to the Privacy Act we are unable to provide our full customer database or selected parts thereof.
Hine/

CARRIED U

INTERNET SOCIETY CHAPTER REQUIREMENTS

Motion: That Roger Hicks and John Hine be authorised to lobby, on behalf of ISOCNZ. the ISOC Board of Trustees and International Chapters prior to their meeting of June 23-24 to achieve changes to the proposed ISOC Policy on the Establishment and Conduct of Chapters of the Internet Society to:

Remove clause 5.1.2
Remove or modify clause 5.1.4
Modify clause 4.2.2 to be less prescriptive with respect to a partner's
membership fees, and Add a clause or clauses stating ISOC's obligations to its chapters

Roger Hicks spoke briefly to the motion.

Jim Higgins argued that the proposed policy was basically flawed, and that the international ISOC should be an organisation made up of organisations.

Roger Hicks agreed, but said that ISOC had rejected that idea, and that he and John Hine wished to go back to ISOC with a minimum list of demands.

There was considerable discussion of whether the proposed changes were sufficient.

The motion was put and

CARRIED U

The meeting was closed at 5.45pm.

©1997 The Internet Society of New Zealand